The City of New Castle, Indiana

COMMON COUNCIL 

MARCH 15, 2010        7:00 P.M.

 

THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE WAS GIVEN BY EVERYONE IN ATTENDANCE.

          MAYOR SMALL CONGRATULATED SISTER SHIRLEY ON THE EXCELLENT FUND RAISING EFFORT TO REBUILD THE CATHOLIC CHURCH AFTER IT HAD BEEN DESTROYED BY FIRE.  HE SAID HE ATTENDED THE OPEN HOUSE AND SAW THE BEAUTIFUL NEW CHURCH.

           A ROUND OF APPLAUSE WAS GIVEN TO SISTER SHIRLEY BY EVERYONE IN ATTENDANCE.

 

MAYOR SMALL OPENED THE MEETING OF THE COMMON COUNCIL.

 

ROLL CALL:

SANDY YORK                                              PRESENT                  

ANGIE GOODMAN                                      PRESENT

JAMES KIDD                                                 PRESENT

MARY MALONE                                          PRESENT

MARK KOGER                                             PRESENT

VAUGHN REID                                            PRESENT

RICHARD HAHN                                         PRESENT

 

          PRESIDENT YORK MOVED TO PASS THIS RESOLUTION   COUNCILMAN HAHN: SECOND

ROLL CALL VOTE: SEVEN VOTES AYE.      PASSED AND ORDERED.

 

           PRESIDENT YORK MOVED TO PASS THIS ORDINANCE ON THIRD READING,

COUNCILMAN REID: SECOND     ROLL CALL VOTE: SIX VOTES AYE.    ONE NAY(KIDD)        PASSED AND ORDERED.

          PRESIDENT YORK MOVED TO PASS THIS ORDINANCE. PERTAINING TO FALSE ALARMS.

COUNCILMAN HAHN: SECOND    ROLL CALL VOTE: SEVEN VOTES AYE.   PASSED AND ORDERED.

 

          PRESIDENT YORK MOVED TO PASS THIS ORDINANCE ON THIRD READING.  COUNCILADY MALONE: SECOND     ROLL CALL VOTE: SEVEN VOTES AYE        PASSED AND ORDERED.

 

          PRESIDENT YORK MOVED TO PASS THIS ORDINANCE.   COUNCILMAN REID: SECOND

ROLL CALL VOTE: SEVEN VOTES AYE.      PASSED AND ORDERED.

 

          PRESIDENT YORK MOVED TO PASS THIS ORDINANCE ON SECOND READING.

COUNCILMAN KOGER: SECOND

         DISCUSSION:   NORMA DISHMAN SAID SHE OPPOSED THE FIRE PROTECTION FEE.  SHE SAID THE COUNCIL AND CITY PAID FOR A STUDY IN JANUARY, 2009,   SHE SAID FROM THE STUDY, CITY RESIDENTS WILL BE FACED WITH A LARGE UTILITY INCREASE IN TIME.  SHE SAID SHE AND SO MANY OTHERS COULD NOT AFFORD THIS, ESPECIALLY WITH THE ECONOMY THE WAY IT IS.  SHE SAID SHE DIDN'T SEE HOW THE CITY WAS GOING TO MAKE UP MONEY BY CHARGING A LITTLE FEE HERE AND THERE.  SHE SAID WE KNOW WHAT IS COMING, WITH THE TRASH FEE.  SHE SAID A CHARGE OF $2.56 WILL BE ADDED TO THE UTILITY BILL, JUST BECAUSE YOU CAN AND WE ARE GOING TO BE FACED WITH A RATE INCREASE IN WATER AND SEWER.

           COUNCILMAN HAHN SAID HE AGREED.  WE SAID THAT LAST YEAR THAT THERE

WOULD HAVE TO BE AN INCREASE IN THE UTILITIES.

           MRS. DISHMAN SAID IT WAS AN INJUSTICE TO THE CITIZENS OF NEW CASTLE WHEN YOU KEEP ADDING THE SMALL FEES WHEN YOU KNOW TWO LARGE CHARGES ARE GOING TO COME AND NOW WITH THE STREET DEPARTMENT BEING PAID OUT OF THE SEWER DEPARTMENT THAT WILL HAVE TO HAVE A RATE INCREASE.

           COUNCILMAN HAHN SAID YOUR PROPERTY TAX HAS DROPPED.  WHEN YOU GAIN ONE WAY, YOU LOOSE ANOTHER.  IT TAKES TAX MONEY TO RUN THE CITY.  HE SAID HE UNDERSTOOD THAT SHE DIDN'T WANT THE USER FEES BUT HE ASKED MRS. DISHMAN, IN HER OPINION, WHAT DO WE NEED TO CUT?  LAY OFF PEOPLE, CUT SERVICES SO WE DON'T HAVE TO CHARGE YOU A FEE?

           MAYOR SMALL SAID HE HAD TO CORRECT A STATEMENT THAT MRS. DISHMAN MADE.  HE SAID THE STREET DEPARTMENT EMPLOYEES ARE BEING PAID FROM THE MVH FUND OR THE ONES AT THE SEWER PLANT ARE BEING PAID FROM THE GENERAL FUND.   SECONDLY, THERE IS AN ASSUMPTION THAT BOTH WASTEWATER AND WATER RATES WILL SOMETIME DOWN THE ROAD WILL BE RAISED.  HE SAID THEY WERE ANTICIPATING THAT THE WASTEWATER WILL BE LOWERED.  AT THIS TIME, THE WATER DEPARTMENT IS HOLDING THEIR OWN.  WE DO NEED MORE MONEY IN THE OPERATING FUND THAN WE HAVE, BUT AT THIS TIME, WE DO NOT HAVE TO RAISE THE WATER RATE.  IF WE WERE TO RESTORE THE OPERATING FUND AS RECOMMENDED, YES, WE WOULD RAISE THE RATES.  WE ARE HOPING THAT ONCE THE  REDUCTION IN THE WASTEWATER  RATES ARE IDENTIFIED THAT THEY WILL COUNTER ANY RATE INCREASE THAT MIGHT HAVE TO BE DONE BY WATER, THEN IT WOULD BE A WASH.  WE DON'T KNOW THAT AT THIS TIME.  BOTH FUNDS ARE SOLVENT AND WE ARE NOT ADDRESSING UTILITY RATE INCREASES AT THIS TIME.

           EDDIE HAGER APPEARED BEFORE THE COUNCIL ENCOURAGING THE COUNCIL, BEFORE PASSING A FEE ORDINANCE, LOOK AT SOME OF THE BUDGETS.  HE SAID HE WAS AWARE THAT THEY WERE GOING TO RAISE $270,000.00 WITH A FEE.  THE CONTRACT WITH THE TOWNSHIP TRUSTEE HAS RAN 3 TO 4 HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS LESS THAN WHAT SHE ACTUALLY COLLECTS FOR THAT PARTICULAR FEE.  HE ASKED THAT THE COUNCIL WORK WITH THE ADMINISTRATION ON TRYING TO GET THAT PARTICULAR CONTRACT INCREASED.  HE SAID AT THIS POINT, THE TRUSTEE IS ABOUT $223,000.00 LEFT, THAT CONTRACT IS LESS THAN WHAT SHE COLLECTS.  TAX PAYERS ARE PAYING IT, CHARGED FOR IT, THE CITY IS BEING TREATED LIKE THE RED HEADED STEP CHILD AND THEY ARE NOT GETTING THE FULL AMOUNT OF WHAT THAT IS BEING PAID FOR.  STATE LAW ALLOWS HER TO DO THAT.  THE TOWNSHIP TRUSTEES ARE THE ONLY ONES WHO CAN BANK MONEY.  HE SAID SHE HAS  $1, 864,000.00 IN THE FIREFIGHTING FUND.  HE WANTED THE CITY TO WORK WITH HER ON THAT CONTRACT, INSTEAD OF IMPLEMENTING A FEE THAT IS GOING TO SAVE $275,000.00, TALK TO THE TOWNSHIP TRUSTEE AND TRY TO NEGOTIATE SOMETHING.  WITH ALMOST 2 MILLION IN AN ACCOUNT, THE CITY DOESN'T HAVE THAT.  THAT IS AN AVENUE TO LOOK AT.

           MAYOR SMALL SAID THAT ANY MONEY WE RECEIVE FOR FIRE PROTECTION, FROM THE TOWNSHIP, CITIZENS AND TAX PAYERS, DOES NOT GO INTO THE GENERAL FUND.  IT GOES INTO THE CAPITAL IMPROVEMENTS FUND. 

           CITY ACCOUNTANT CUPP SAID THAT HALF GOES TO THE GENERAL FUND.

           MAYOR SMALL SAID HE STOOD CORRECTED.

           COUNCILMAN REID SAID THE FIRE PROTECTION CO-ORDINATES IS THE MONEY THAT GOES TO THE UTILITY.  WHAT HAPPENED PREVIOUSLY, THE TOWNSHIP AND THE CITY HAS BEEN ABLE TO PAY THAT ON BEHALF OF THE CITIZENS TO THE WATER UTILITY AND THAT IS NO LONGER FEASIBLE FOR THE CITY TO DO.  IT MAY BE FOR THE TOWNSHIP BUT FIGURE THAT OUT SO THE PEOPLE IN THE TOWNSHIP DOESN'T GET CHARGED DOUBLE.

           MR. HAGER SAID THAT LAST YEAR THE CITY OF RICHMOND, IN A BUDGET CRUNCHING SITUATION, THEY AND THE PALLADIUM NEWSPAPER0 STARTED TO DO INVESTIGATING AND FOUND THAT THE OVERTIME IN THE FIRE DEPARTMENT AT ONE STATION WAS OVER SEVEN HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS.  HE THOUGHT AN INVESTIGATION COULD BE DONE BY THE ADMINISTRATION AND COUNCIL.   

           MAYOR SMALL SAID THEY WERE CONCERNED ABOUT THE OVERTIME.  RIGHT NOW IT IS RUNNING A LITTLE BIT AHEAD OF SCHEDULE IN THE FIRE DEPARTMENT.  WE HAVE AN AGING FIRE DEPARTMENT.  WITH THAT WE HAVE INCREASED INJURIES.  NOW WE HAVE 3 FIREMEN OUT WITH INJURIES SO OVERTIME IS NEEDED.

           DALE COLE SAID WHAT IS HAPPENING IN RICHMOND IS NOT HAPPENING IN NEW CASTLE.

 

           PRESIDENT YORK MOVED TO PASS THIS ORDINANCE ON FIRST READING.

COUNCILMAN HAHN: SECOND

          DISCUSSION:  BOTH PROPERTIES ARE BUSINESSES AND ARE ASKING FOR TWO HOUR PARKING AT THE SIDE OF THEIR BUSINESSES.  THEY SAY NEIGHBORS PARK THERE AND THEIR CLIENTS HAVE NO PARKING SPACE.

 

ROLL CALL VOTE: SEVEN VOTES AYE.                PASSED AND ORDERED.

 

COUNCIL REPORTS:

 

          THE BUILDING INSPECTORS OFFICE HAS SENT LETTERS TO THESE PEOPLE AND ASKED THAT THEY CLEAN UP THE PROPERTY.  ALSO, MS. CONN HAD HER HOME UP FOR SALE AND BECAUSE OF THE LIABILITY OF THE OTHER PROPERTY; NO ONE WAS WILLING TO PURCHASE HER HOUSE.

           BUILDING INSPECTOR HALL SAID HE KNEW OF THE PROBLEM AND IT IS NOW IN COURT.  HE SAID THIS HAS HAPPENED BEFORE AND SAID MS. CONN DOES HAVE A LEGITIMATE COMPLAINT.

           COUNCILADY GOODMAN SAID SHE WOULD CALL AND SEE IF SHE CAN GET SOME HELP TO CLEAN UP.

 

COUNCILMAN REID ASKED THAT IF THEY WERE GOING TO START PICKING UP BULK TRASH.

           MAYOR SMALL SAID THEY WERE STILL ADJUSTING THE TRASH ROUTES.  WE HAVEN'T HAD THAT FREE TIME TO DEVOTE TO BULK TRASH.  THAT IS WHY WE HAVEN'T ADVERTISED IT AT THIS TIME.  HE SAID WE ARE MOVING IN THAT DIRECTION.  IF PEOPLE CALL, IT WILL BE REMOVED.

 

          ACCOUNTANT CUPP SAID WE PAY ACTUAL CLAIMS SO THERE ISN'T AN EXACT AMOUNT.  SHE SAID THE LAST 3 YEARS IT HAS VARIED BETWEEN 35 AND 80 THOUSAND DOLLARS IN CLAIMS A YEAR. 

          COUNCILMAN KIDD SAID THAT COMES FROM THE COUNCIL.

          ACCOUNTANT CUPP SAID THE PART TIME ELECTED.

          

COUNCILMAN KIDD ASKED ATTORNEY COPENHAVER WHERE WE STAND ON THE OGLE PROPERTY.

          ATTORNEY COPENHAVER SAID IT WAS SET FOR A HEARING ON MARCH 30^TH.  THAT WON'T BE THE FINAL HEARING, BUT A HEARING ON THE APPOINTMENT OF APPRAISERS.  THERE WAS A HEARING ON THE 1^ST OF THE MONTH AND HE WAS SERVED WITH PAPERS, AND THE COURT WAS SET FOR MARCH 30^TH.  HE ASKED FOR A CONTINUANCE BUT IT WAS DENIED.

THAT IS THE ONLY PROPERTY THAT WE HAVEN'T ACQUIRED AND THE PROCEDURE THERE WILL BE, THE COURT WILL APPOINT 3 PEOPLE, 2 APPRAISERS AND 1 IS A FREE HOLDER.  THEY WILL DETERMINE A VALUE OF THE PROPERTY.  HE DOESN'T HAVE TO ACCEPT THAT VALUE BUT ONCE THE VALUE HAS BEEN DETERMINED, THEN WE CAN PROCEED WITH THE PROJECT BY PAYING THAT AMOUNT INTO COURT.  THEN THE MATTER WILL PROCEED.  IF HE WANTS TO GO TO TRIAL OR PRODUCE THE VALUE IN EVIDENCE. 

           COUNCILMAN KIDD ASKED IF THE PROJECT COULD GO AFTER THE COURT PROCEEDING, WE CAN GET STARTED ON THE PROJECT.

           ATTORNEY COPENHAVER SAID IT WON'T BE RIGHT AFTER MARCH 30^TH BECAUSE

WE NEED TO GET THE APPRAISERS APPOINTED.  AFTER THE APPRAISERS ARE APPOINTED, THE WORK WILL BEGIN.  MAYBE WITHIN 60 TO 90 DAYS.

           COUNCILMAN REID ASKED HOW MUCH OF THE BOND HAS THE CITY SPENT ON GARNER STREET.

           ACCOUNTANT CUPP SAID WE HAVE ABOUT $350,000.00 LEFT.

           MAYOR SMALL SAID, CONTRARY TO WHAT SOME PEOPLE HAVE SAID, WE HAVE NOT LOST THE BOND.  THE PROJECT IS STILL ACTIVE.

           COUNCILMAN REID SAID, IF WE HAVEN'T SPENT IT, WE JETTISON BOTH OF THOSE PROJECTS DUE TO OUR FINANCIAL STATUS.  WE HAVE SPENT A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT AT THIS POINT SO WHEN WE FIGURED IT UP, WE WOULD HAVE ENOUGH TO GARNER STREET WITH JUST A LITTLE LEFT OVER TO START THE EAST SIDE.

 

PUBLIC:

 

MAYOR SMALL SAID WE HAD EXTENSIVE CONVERSATIONS AT THE LAST COUNCIL MEETING ABOUT TRASH COLLECTION AND FEES.  THIS IS A PUBLIC MEETING AND YOU ARE ENTITLED TO TALK ABOUT IT BUT HE REQUESTED THAT WE OPEN THE FLOOR TO ANYTHING OTHER THAN TRASH.  THE PROPER TIME TO TALK ABOUT TRASH WILL BE WHEN WE HAVE AN ORDINANCE.  THE PUBLIC WILL BE LIMITED TO 5 MINUTES PER PERSON FOR DISCUSSION.  THIS IS A PROCEDURE ESTABLISHED BY THE COUNCIL.

 

EDDIE HAGER SAID HE HAD AN ISSUE ABOUT, THE DOWNTOWN PARKING.  ON CHURCH STREET, HE SAID HE NOTICED ABOUT TWO YEARS AGO, THERE IS A LADY THAT WORKS AT THE POST OFFICE THAT PARKS RIGHT IN THE CORNER, THE NORTHEAST CORNER OF CHURCH AND 14^TH ST.  THERE IS LIMITED PARKING THERE AND NOW THERE IS 4 EMPLOYEES PARKING THERE.  THEY ARE TAKING ALL THAT PARKING IN FRONT OF MAPLEWOOD TERRACE.  THEY HAVE PARKING IN BACK.

          THE TRAFFIC COMMITTEE WILL LOOK INTO THE PROBLEM.

 

MARY LOGAN SAID SHE MET WITH MAYOR SMALL AND ACCOUNTANT CUP AT HIS INVITATION, TO GO OVER THE FIGURES.  SHE SAID THERE WERE NO FIGURES TO GO OVER.  SHE SAID SHE ASKED FOR THESE TRASH TRUCKS ANALYSIS, YOU GAVE THEM TO ME.  SHE SAID ALL SHE WANTS IS FOR SOMEONE; BECAUSE SHE CAN'T FIND IT, YOU (MAYOR) SAY IT IS GOING TO SAVE US MONEY.  SHE ASKED TO BE SHOWN, ALONG WITH THE COUNCIL, WHERE THIS IS SAVING US MONEY.  SHE PRESENTED A SPREAD SHEET TO THE COUNCIL AND ALL IN ATTENDANCE.

          MAYOR SMALL ASKED MRS. LOGAN TO COME BACK AND THEY WOULD DO SO.

          MAYOR SMALL SAID WE DO NOT HAVE ALL THE REFERENCES REQUIRED TO HAVE A GOOD DISCUSSION WITH YOU.  HAD WE KNOWN IN ADVANCED, WE COULD HAVE BEEN PREPARED.  HE SUGGESTED THAT SHE MEET WITH THE BUDGET COMMITTEE OF THE COUNCIL OR COME BACK AND TALK WITH MRS. CUPP AND HIM AND THEY WOULD ANSWER HER QUESTIONS.  HE TOLD HER SHE WAS WELCOMED TO CONTINUE SPEAKING, THIS IS A PUBLIC MEETING.  WE WILL HOLD YOU TO 5 MINUTES.

           MRS. LOGAN SAID AS OUR CITY IS FACING A HUGH SHORTFALL, 2.7 MILLION DOLLARS, THE PUBLIC SHOULD KNOW WHAT PLANNING  WENT INTO THIS PROJECT PRIOR TO A LENGTHY COMMITMENT.  HOW HARD CAN IT BE, BY YOUR FIGURES, $1,925,798.00 THE FINAL TOTAL INTO DEBT WITH THE UNCERTAINTY THAT OUR CITY IS SAFE.  THIS IS A NEW DEBT, NOT AN OLD DEBT, YET OUR OLD PACKERS NEEDED TO BE REPLACED; HOWEVER THEY ARE $100,000.00 A PIECE.

           MAYOR SMALL SAID THEY WERE CLOSER TO $200,000.00 ACCORDING TO THE GENTLEMAN IN CHARGE.

           MRS. LOGAN SAID SHE FOUND ON LINE, $102,000.00, BUT THE ONE ARM BANDITS OR WHATEVER YOU CALL THEM,  ARE $282,402.00 A PIECE.  THIS WAS POORLY PLANNED AND EXECUTED.  WE HAVE A LARGE NUMBER OF ELDERLY AND DISABLED IN OUR COMMUNITY WHOM ARE UNABLE TO MOVE THESE TOTERS.  SHE SAID SHE HAS TO PLAN FOR THINGS SHE WANTS AND DOESN'T GO 2 MILLION DOLLARS INTO DEBT.  SHE SAID WE DON'T KNOW WHAT OUR SHORT FALL IS GOING TO BE NEXT YEAR.  IT IS GOING TO GO DOWN FOR SURE.  SHE SAID SHE THOUGHT #1. WE HAVE TAKEN AWAY JOBS FROM PEOPLE WHO ARE GIVING TO OUR COMMUNITY.  SHE SAID SHE UNDERSTOOD WE HAVE TO MAKE CUTS BUT HOW IS THIS GOING TO SAVE US MONEY.  ON YOUR SPREAD SHEET,  WE WILL HAVE 5 TRUCKS WITH 3 DRIVERS.  THE FUEL WILL STAY THE SAME.  SHE SAID SHE HAS OTHER QUESTIONS BUT THAT CAN WAIT UNTIL WE TALK TRASH.

 

TRACY DENNEY ASKED ABOUT THE LETTER OF INTENT THAT WAS SIGNED ON THE METALDYNE FACILITY AND WHAT COMMITMENTS MAYOR SMALL HAS MADE. IS THAT BUILDING STILL AVAILABLE FOR OTHER ACTIVITY OR ARE YOU LOCKED IN?

           MAYOR SMALL SAID NO, WE ARE NOT LOCKED UP.  HE SAID THERE ARE TWO INDUSTRIES APPLYING FOR THE PLANT.  WHOEVER COMES UP WITH THE MONEY FIRST GETS THE FACILITY.

           MR. DENNEY ASKED WHO OWNS METALDYNE.

           ATTORNEY COPENHAVER SAID THIS SHOULD BE MADE CLEAR, THE CITY OF NEW CASTLE DOES NOT OWN THAT BUILDING.  WHATEVER PRIVATE ARRANGEMENT, HE SAID HE UNDERSTOOD THAT METALDYNE IS IN BANKRUPTCY, AND HE DIDN'T KNOW HOW THE TRUSTEE IN BANKRUPTCY HANDLES THAT.  THEY WILL MAKE THE DECISION ON THE SALE.  THE CITY IS JUST A COMMON DENOMINATOR BECAUSE WE WANT TO SEE JOBS IN THE CITY.

THE CITY IS NOT INVOLVED IN THE SALE OF THAT BUILDING.

           MAYOR SMALL SAID THAT MRS. DAVIS IS CONTINUING TO WORK WITH REALTORS TO MARKET THE BUILDING.  WE ARE NOT PUTTING ALL OUR EGGS IN ONE BASKET.

 

COUNCILMAN REID ASKED ATTORNEY COPENHAVER IF HE UNDERSTOOD CORRECTLY THAT PRIOR TO THE INSTITUTION OF TRASH FEE, WE WILL HAVE A FULL PLEDGED PUBLIC HEARING?

          ATTORNEY COPENHAVER SAID YES.  HE SAID AS HE UNDERSTANDS IT, IT WOULD BE A RATE SEWAGE PLAN.  A RATE COMFORTABLE TO THE USER FEE WITH A SEWAGE RATE STRUCTURE.  SO BY LAW, WE WOULD HAVE TO HOLD A PUBLIC HEARING AND IT WOULD BE ADVERTISED IN THE PAPER.

           COUNCILMAN REID ASKED ATTORNEY COPENHAVER TO DESCRIBE THE PROCESS FROM ORDINANCE CREATION UNTIL A FEE WOULD BE IMPLEMENTED.  HE SAID HE WANTED TO BE SURE THE PUBLIC HAS THE OPPORTUNITY TO DISCUSS THE ISSUE.

           ATTORNEY COPENHAVER SAID, ASSUMING, THE COUNCIL CHOOSES TO GO WITH A CITY TRASH COLLECTION, AND THAT BE PART OF YOUR SEWAGE WORKS, THEN THAT FEE WOULD BE LIKE YOUR STORM WATER FEE.  IT WOULD BE PART OF THE STORM WATER RATE.  IT WOULD BE CALCULATED SEPARATELY.  ON THE BILLING, THERE WOULD BE A LINE FOR SOLID WASTE COLLECTION.  HE SAID THIS WAS A GOOD WAY TO DO IT BECAUSE IT GETS THE INFORMATION TO THE PUBLIC.  YOU WANT TO HAVE AT LEAST ONE READING, SO THAT IT GETS REPORTED IN THE NEWSPAPER, THEN HAVE YOUR PUBLIC HEARING, WHICH IS ADVERTISED, THEN HAVE YOUR THIRD AND FINAL READING.  SO THE WHOLE PROCESS, IF YOU ELECT TO GO THAT WAY, WOULD TAKE FROM THE FIRST READING TO THE END, ABOUT 6 WEEKS.  THERE ARE OTHER THINGS YOU CAN DO.  WE HAVE TALKED ABOUT PRIVATIZING.  THIS WOULD BE DONE A DIFFERENT WAY.  THE WAY IT HAS BEEN TALKED ABOUT MOST IS TO MAKE IT PART OF THE SEWAGE WORKS AND BILLING PROCESS.

           COUNCILMAN REID SAID, IF THE CITY CHOOSES TO OUT SOURCE THE LABOR, THE ACTUAL OPERATION OF THE TRASH PICK UP WOULD STILL BE RUN AT THE UTILITIES?

           ATTORNEY COPENHAVER SAID YES.  IT WOULD BE THE SEWAGE DEPARTMENT WOULD CONTRACT WITH A THIRD PARTY TO DO THAT. ANOTHER ALTERNATIVE, WE WOULD JUST DISCONTINUE THE SERVICE. 

           MAYOR SMALL SAID IT WAS ASKED THAT THEY LOOK INTO THE COST.  HE SAID WE ARE HAVING SOME DIFFICULTY DOING THAT.  MR. HAMILTON IS IN CONTACT WITH AT LEAST 3 DIFFERENT ONES.  THEY HESITATE TO GIVE A QUOTE;  THEY WANT TO GIVE A BID.  WE DO KNOW FROM THE LOCAL LANDFILL, IT WOULD COST AROUND $16.50 A MONTH FOR BUSTERS, IF WE WERE TO CONTRACT TO HIM.  OTHER UNITS WE ARE TALKING TO HAVE SIMILAR EXPENSES.  IF THE CITY CONTINUES TO DO THE PICK UP, IT IS CONSIDERABLY LESS THAN THAT.  IT BOILS DOWN TO AN OPTION. WE DO IT OURSELVES OR CONTRACT OUT.  WHEN YOU CONTRACT OUT, YOU LOOSE ALL CONTROL OVER WHAT THAT FEE MAY BE.  THEY MAY LOW BALL US THE FIRST COUPLE OF YEARS AND THEN THE THIRD YEAR WHAM.  WE HAVE QUALIFIED MEN COLLECTING THE WASTE NOW.  WE HAVE A GOOD SYSTEM GOING.  HE SAID HE DIDN'T WANT TO CHANGE IT.  HE SAID THE ADMINISTRATION DOES NOT WANT TO CONTRACT OUT.

           COUNCILMAN REID SAID HE DIDN'T WANT TO SEE THE CITY DO A ONE OR TWO YEAR CONTRACT.  MAYBE A FIVE, TEN, OR FIFTEEN YEAR TO GET A BETTER DEAL.  HE SAID SULPHUR SPRINGS WAS $29.00 FOR 3 MONTHS FOR TRASH PICK UP.  THAT IS CHEAPER THAN WHAT WE COULD DO IT FOR.  IS THE TOWN SUBSIDIZING OUT OF THEIR UTILITY FUND?

           MAYOR SMALL SAID HE DIDN'T BELIEVE SO.  HE SAID HE WAS INFORMED THAT THEY ARE NOT BEING SUBSIDIZED.

          COUNCILMAN REID SAID IF THE CITY IS GOING TO CONTINUE AND CHARGE FOR TRASH, WE HAVE TO FIGURE IN, AS PART OF THE RATE SCHEDULE, THE COST OF ADDITIONAL ENFORCEMENT BECAUSE 20 TO 30 PERCENT OF THE CITY CAN'T AFFORD TRASH PICKUP.  THAT IS A ROUGH ESTIMATE.  WE WILL HAVE TO HAVE ENFORCEMENT CAPABILITIES IN PLACE TO DEAL WITH THAT.

           PRESIDENT YORK SAID SHE HAD READ THAT SULPHUR SPRINGS HAD ABOUT 750 HOUSEHOLDS AND ALL HAD TO COME ABOARD.

           COUNCIL REID SAID HE THOUGHT HAVING MORE PEOPLE, YOU MIGHT GET A CHEAPER RATE.  HE SAID THE COST DIFFERENCE COULD BE GREAT.  WE ARE NOT READY TO TALK FIGURES YET.  HE SAID UMBAUGH SAID THE STUDY RECOMMENDED $12.00 FOR A BIG TOTER AND $8.00 FOR THE SMALL.  HE SAID MOST OF US WANT A FLAT FEE.  IF THAT IS WHAT THEY RECOMMEND, NOT TAKING INTO CONSIDERATION OF PEOPLE NOT PAYING, THEN THAT IS GOING TO DRIVE THAT COST UP.  WE ARE LOOKING AT SOME OF THESE OTHER TOWNS THAT DO IT FOR 8 TO 10 DOLLARS A MONTH, THEN HE DIDN'T KNOW IF IT WAS REASONABLE FOR US TO CHARGE ALMOST DOUBLE JUST TO OPERATE IT OURSELVES.  PLUS WE WOULD HAVE THE ADDITIONAL BENEFIT OF HAVING THE TRASH TRUCKS REPOED.  TO HAVE THE TOTERS REPOED WOULD SAVE US 50, 60 OR 70 THOUSAND DOLLARS A YEAR OFF THE LEASE.  HE SAID HE KNEW IT WOULD SUCK FOR THE CITY TO GET IT'S TRASH TRUCKS REPOED BUT IF WE GET OUT OF THE LEASE, BUT IT MAY BE A BIGGER COST SAVINGS THAN IT IS ON PAPER.

 

NORMA DISHMAN ASKED ATTORNEY COPENHAVER FOR THE EXIT STRATEGY FOR LEASE ON THOSE TRUCKS.

           ATTORNEY COPENHAVER SAID THERE WAS A PROVISION IN THE CONTRACT IF WE DECIDE THAT WE DO NOT WANT THE ITEMS, TURN THE TRUCKS BACK IN.

 

KELLY McCASLIN SAID THE CITIZENS OF NEW CASTLE AREN'T GOING TO BE ABLE TO AFFORD IT.  EVEN WITH A BUDGET, IN THE END YOU DON'T HAVE ANYTHING.  YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT OUT SOURCE.  YOU HAVE ALREADY GOTTEN RID OF OVER HALF OF THE GUYS JOBS.  WE DIDN'T NEED THE TOTERS FROM THE BEGINNING, IT OUT US IN A HOLE.  IT IS PART OF THE CITY'S BUDGET PROBLEM.  HE ASKED IF ANYBODY WOULD BE WILLING TO PAY $15 TO $20 A MONTH TO GIVE THOSE MEN JOBS.

           THE RESPONSE FROM ABOUT 25 IN THE AUDIENCE WAS YES.

           McCASLIN SAID THE GUYS THAT LOST THEIR JOBS HAVE NO MONEY.  NO MONEY, NO TAXES.  I CAN'T PAY MY WATER BILL OR ANY OTHER BILLS.  WHAT OTHER OPTION DO I HAVE, MOVE.  IF I'D HAD THE MONEY, I'D BE GONE.  WE CAN'T KEEP SPENDING MONEY WE DON'T HAVE.  HE SAID IF YOU KEEP ADDING FEES ON, EVERYBODY IS GOING TO BE IN A HOLE AND CAN'T GET OUT OF.

           COUNCILMAN REID SAID THE PROPERTY TAXES.  IF YOU LOOK AT EVERYTHING IN GENERAL, PEOPLE ARE PAYING LESS TAXES NOW BECAUSE OF THE DECREASE IN PROPERTY TAXES THAN THEY WERE THREE YEARS AGO.  IT TAKES A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF MONEY TO PROVIDE BASIC SERVICES OR ANY LOCAL GOVERNMENT AGENCY.  HE SAID HE KNEW IT WAS TOUGH BUT WHAT HE IS HEARING, KEEP EVERYBODY WORKING BUT CHEAPER ON THE SERVICES.  WE CAN'T DO THAT.  WE HAVE TO CUT PERSONNEL COSTS BECAUSE WE ARE GOING TO HAVE ANOTHER 2 MILLION DOLLAR INCREASE IN THE BUDGET NEXT YEAR AND IF WE DON'T CUT BY 20 TO 30 PERCENT THIS YEAR, WE ARE SCREWED NEXT

YEAR.

           MR. McCASLIN SAID WE WOULD NOT HAVE HAD THE ADDED EXPENSE IF IT WASN'T FOR THE ONE ARMED BANDITS AND TOTERS.  WE WOULDN'T HAVE HAD IT.  RIGHT OR AM I WRONG?

           COUNCILMAN REID SAID WE ARE NOT PAYING FOR THOSE ALL AT ONCE.  THAT IS NOT A MILLION DOLLARS THIS YEAR COMING OUT OF THE BUDGET.  WHAT IS IT, 40 OR 50 THOUSAND A YEAR?

           MAYOR SMALL SAID THE PAYMENT IS $179,000.00 YEARLY FOR 2 TRUCKS AND THE TOTERS.

           COUNCILMAN REID TOLD MR. McCASLIN THAT HE AGREED WITH HIM AND THE TRASH SWITCH OVER WAS HANDLED IMPROPERLY.  HE SAID HE WAS GLAD THE ONE STAFF PERSON WHO WAS INVOLVED WITH THIS IS NO LONGER AN EMPLOYEE OF THE CITY.

           MAYOR SMALL SAID TO MR. McCASLIN THAT THIS IS PUTTING US IN THE HOLE.  HE ASKED HOW MUCH WE WERE IN THE HOLE BECAUSE OF GOING TO AUTOMATED.

          MR. McCASLIN SAID HE DIDN'T KNOW.

          MAYOR SMALL SAID WE HAD 9 MEN ON 3 PACKERS LAST YEAR.  THOSE 9 MEN COST THE CITY $59,000.00 PER MAN.  NOW WE HAVE 2 MEN ON THE AUTOMATED TRUCKS.  3 MEN ON THE RECTRO, WHEN IT IS RUNNING, BUT THOSE 3 MEN WILL BE DOING OTHER THINGS OTHER THAN TRASH PICK UP.  WE ARE HAVING A SIGNIFICANT DECREASE IN PERSONNEL BY HAVING GONE TO AUTOMATION.  FROM 9 DOWN TO 2 OR 3 WHEN WE ARE FINISHED.  THAT IS A MAJOR SAVINGS.

 

COUNCILMAN KOGER SAID THAT THIS TRASH WAS THROWN IN THE COUNCIL'S LAP BY THE ADMINISTRATION.  THEY WENT BEHIND OUT BACKS AND GOT THE TOTERS, WENT BEHIND OUR BACKS AND LAID OFF THE MEN WITHOUT OUR KNOWLEDGE.  NOBODY ON THIS COUNCIL WAS PREPARED WITH WHAT HAPPENED WITH THE ADMINISTRATION.  SO WE ARE LIVING WITH WHAT WE HAVE.  HE SAID HE EXPLAINED THIS TO MR. McCASLIN BEFORE.  ONCE THE COUNCIL APPROVES THE BUDGET, IT IS UP TO THE ADMINISTRATION TO SEE IT IS DONE RIGHT.  HE (MAYOR) WAS ELECTED BY THE PEOPLE TO DO THAT.  WAS IT A GOOD JOB THAT IS OUR OPINION.  BUT, WE ARE AT THE POINT NOW THAT WE HAVE TO WORK WITH WHAT WE HAVE.  WE WERE THROWN THIS, IT WAS A CURVE BALL.  WE WANT TO HEAR FROM OUR CONSTITUENTS.  ALL WE HEAR IS NEGATIVITY, WE WANT TO HEAR RESOLUTIONS.  HE SAID HE WANTED SOMEONE TO TELL HIM WHAT THE RIGHT ANSWER IS.  HE SAID HE WAS WILLING TO LISTEN AS EVERYONE ON THIS COUNCIL IS.  THIS TRASH IS OUT OF CONTROL.  IS THE USER FEE THE ONLY OPTION?  NO.  A BAND AID TO GET US THROUGH THIS YEAR.   THE ADMINISTRATION IS NOT MAKING SIGNIFICANT CUTS.   IT IS SOMETHING WE HAVE TO LIVE WITH.  THE COUNCIL IS GOING TO HAVE TO SIT DOWN WITH THE PUBLIC.  WE NEED TO HEAR WHAT THEY HAVE TO SAY.

           COUNCILMAN KIDD SAID REGARDLESS OF WHOM YOU BLAME, THIS COUNCIL NOW, WE ARE TRYING TO DEAL WITH THE PROBLEM.  EITHER USER FEES OR PRIVATIZE, OR DROP THE TRASH PICK UP AND LET EACH INDIVIDUAL TAKE CARE OF HIS OWN.  THERE MAY BE OTHER OPTIONS BUT THOSE ARE THE 3 MAIN OPTIONS.  TWO OF THEM SOUND A LOT WORSE THAN TRASH FEES.

 

NORMA DISHMAN AGAIN ASKED TO SPEAK.  SHE SAID WE HAVE TALKED TRASH FOR YEARS.  OUR PROBLEMS TODAY IS BECAUSE THE CITY HAS NOT KEPT UP FOR THE PAST 20 TO 30 YEARS FOR CHARGING FOR SERVICES.  WHEN WE HAD MONEY THAT IS WHEN THEY SHOULD HAVE STARTED CHARGING.  JUST LIKE THE WATER INCREASE.  IT WAS SUGGESTED 9%.  WHAT IS IT GOING TO BE IN ANOTHER YEAR OR TWO?  SHE SAID THAT IS WHAT SHE IS UPSET ABOUT.  IN MAY, 2009, THE COUNCIL WAS TO HAVE A MEETING ABOUT THE TRASH FEE AT THE LIBRARY IN 30 DAYS.  THE MAYOR SAID HE OPPOSED TRASH FEES.  LEAVING THE COUNCIL TO LOOK LIKE THE BAD GUYS.  SHE ASKED ATTORNEY COPENHAVER ABOUT THE LENGTH OF TIME TO GET THE CONTRACT FOR THOSE TRUCKS.   HOW LONG DID IT TAKE YOU TO WRITE IT?

           ATTORNEY COPENHAVER SAID HE DIDN'T WRITE IT, IT WAS A FORUM CONTRACT THAT THE COMPANY USES.

           MRS. DISHMAN ASKED WHEN DID IT BEGIN.

           MAYOR SMALL SAID AUGUST 1, 2009.

           MRS. DISHMAN SAID, YOU CONTACTED THEM ON AUGUST 1^ST?

           MAYOR SMALL SAID, NO WE BEGAN THE AUTOMATION COLLECTION ON AUGUST 1^ST.

           MRS. DISHMAN SAID, I WANT TO KNOW WHEN YOU CONTACTED THEM.

           MAYOR SMALL SAID ABOUT THREE MONTHS PRIOR.

           MRS. DISHMAN SAID, SO, YOU KNEW ON MAY 6^TH, WHEN THE COUNCIL WAS HAVING A PUBLIC MEETING THAT YOU ALREADY HAD THE TRUCKS COMING.  NOW, 21 DAYS LATER, THE HEAD LINES OF THE COURIER WAS, THE CITY TO OVERHAUL TRASH COLLECTION.  SMALL IS LEASING THE TOTE TRUCKS FOR ONE HUNDRED AND SEVENTY FIVE THOUSAND DOLLARS A YEAR.   THE CONTRACT THROUGH 2016 AND 8,000 TOTES, AND THE CITIZENS GET THE TOTES FREE.  THEY DON'T HAVE TO DO ANYTHING.  AFTER 6 YEARS, LEASING THOSE TRUCKS, WE STILL DON'T OWN THEM. 

           ATTORNEY COPENHAVER TOLD MRS. DISHMAN THAT THE TRUCKS ARE ON A LEASE PURCHASE AGREEMENT.  AT THE END OF THE TERM, THE CITY FOR A DOLLAR CAN BUY IT.

           MRS. DISHMAN SAID THAT THE MAYOR STARTED 3 MONTHS BEFORE MAY.  ON MAY 28^TH, THE MAYOR SAID THE CITY WILL BE GOING TO AUTOMATED WEEKLY TRASH COLLECTION.  THE COLLECTION WILL STILL BE WITHOUT COST.  IN THE SAME EDITORIAL, YOU SAID  YOU WOULD CONSIDER A WEEKLY TRASH COLLECTION.  DON'T MAKE SENSE TO ME.  NOW HE IS SAYING WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO HAVE A THIRD TRUCK, A TRUCK WITH AN ARM TO PICK UP COUCHES AND HEAVY ITEMS.

           MAYOR SMALL SAID HE DIDN'T SAY WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO HAVE A THIRD TRUCK.  WE ARE GETTING ALONG WITH 2 TRUCKS RIGHT NOW.  WE HAVE A RETRO TRUCK, SORRY WE DON'T HAVE, AND THEY ARE BOTH DOWN.  THESE ARE THE PACKERS THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN ON THE STREET.  BOTH IN FOR REPAIR RIGHT NOW.

           COUNCILMAN REID SAID HE SUGGESTED THAT THE CITY MIGHT HAVE TO HAVE A THIRD TRUCK

          MRS. DISHMAN SAID NO, YOU SAID 

          COUNCILMAN REID SAID LET ME FINISH.  LET ME FREAKIN FINISH.  LET ME FINISH MY SENTENCE THEN YOU CAN SAY ALL THE HELL YOU WHAT.

          COUNCILMAN REID SAID NOW, WHAT I HAD SAID WAS, I SUGGESTED THAT THE MAYOR MIGHT NEED A THIRD TRUCK AND THERE HAD BEEN SOME AGREEMENT FROM THE ADMINISTRATION THAT A THIRD TRUCK WAS POSSIBLY NECESSARY AND WE MIGHT ALSO NEED%u2026%u2026.AND HE ALSO SUGGESTED THAT IT MIGHT BE CHEAPER IN THE LONG RUN TO PROVIDE SOME OF THE AUTOMATED BULK TRASH PICK UP MACHINES VERSUS NEVER GETTING IT DONE AT ALL.  HE SAID HE FELT AS THOUGH THE CITY SHOULD HAVE STARTED CHARGING FOR TRASH PICK UP BACK IN THE BOLES ADMINISTRATION, IF NOT BEFORE, BUT WE DIDN'T.  BECAUSE WE DIDN'T, THE CITY, ANYTIME IT WANTS TO IMPLEMENT ANY TYPE OF FEE, WE HAVE HALF OF THE CITY OF NEW CASTLE UP HERE WAITING TO SCALP US.  HE SAID HE WAS REFERRING TO THE LAST RATE INCREASE.  HE SAID WE HAVE COUNCIL PEOPLE WHO GET DEATH THREATS ON THEIR PHONE.  COUNCILMAN REID SAID THERE WAS A LOT OF OPPOSITION TO THINGS THAT NEED TO BE DONE BECAUSE WE HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO DON'T WANT TO PAY FOR ANYTHING, FOR ANY THING.  HE SAID THAT EARLIER IN THIS MEETING

          MRS. DISHMAN, YOU ARE ONE OF THE PEOPLE WHO STATED VERY CLEARLY THAT YOU CAN'T AFFORD TO PAY FOR ANYTHING AND YOU DON'T WANT ANY ADDITIONAL FEES.  NOW YOU'RE SAYING WE SHOULD HAVE HAD THESE FEES EARLIER ON.  YOU EITHER WANT THE FEES OR YOU DON'T. 

          MRS. DISHMAN SAID, THAT IS NOT WHAT I SAID.  SHE SAID WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE CITY ALL THESE YEARS, THE CITY DIDN'T KEEP UP.  SHE TOLD COUNCILMAN REID, AT THE LAST MEETING YOU SAID, WE HAVE ALWAYS KNOWN WE WERE GOING TO HAVE TO GET A THIRD TRUCK.

           COUNCILMAN REID SAID HE WASN'T SPEAKING FOR THE ADMINISTRATION WHEN HE SAID THAT.  HE SAID FROM HIS OBSERVATION, THE OPERATION OF THE CITY OF NEW CASTLE'S STREET OPERATIONS%u2026%u2026%u2026%u2026%u2026%u2026%u2026%u2026%u2026.

           MRS. DISHMAN SAID YOU THINK I DON'T KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT.

           COUNCILMAN REID SAID TO MRS. DISHMAN, YOU WERE PARAPHRASING

INCORRECTLY AND WOULDN'T LET ME SPEAK.  I DIDN'T CUSS YOU, I SAID FREAKIN, AND I SAID LET ME IN THE HELL SAY WHAT I WANT TO SAY BEFORE YOU JUMP MY CASE.  HE SAID ALL HE WAS TRYING TO SAY, I'M SORRY I LOST MY HEAD WITH YOU, LOST MY TEMPER, BUT IF YOUR GOING TO COME UP HERE AND JUMP ME, AT LEAST GIVE ME THE RESPECT AND A CHANCE TO FINISH MY SENTENCE AND MY THOUGHT BEFORE YOU ARE READY TO COME ACROSS AND SAY, NO, NO, NO, YOUR NOT RIGHT.

 

MAYOR SMALL SAID REGARDING THE THIRD TRUCK, WE HAVE HAD DISCUSSIONS WITH THE VENDOR, WE DO NOT BELIEVE WE NEED THE THIRD TRUCK.  THE CREWS THAT WE HAVE RIGHT NOW ARE DOING VERY WELL. CONTINUING TO PICK UP MORE TOTERS EVERY DAY.  AS OF NOW, WE WON'T NEED A THIRD TRUCK.

           MAYOR SMALL SAID TO MRS. DISHMAN, YOU ARE ACCUSING ME OF KNOWING

PRESIDENT YORK MOVED TO ADJOURN.

COUNCILMAN REID: SECOND