The City of New Castle, Indiana

COMMON COUNCIL

SEPTEMBER 7, 2010 7:00 P.M.

 

THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE WAS GIVEN BY EVERYONE IN ATTENDANCE.

PRAYER WAS GIVEN BY PASTOR KEN DURHAM, WORSHIP DIRECTOR, FIRST BAPTIST CHURCH.

MAYOR SMALL OPENED THE MEETING OF THE COMMON COUNCIL.

SANDY YORK PRESENT

ANGIE GOODMAN PRESENT

JAMES KIDD PRESENT

MARY MALONE PRESENT

MARK KOGER PRESENT

VAUGHN REID PRESENT

RICHARD HAHN PRESENT

ATTORNEY COPENHAVER STATED THAT THIS WAS A PUBLIC HEARING REGARDING ORDINANCE #3601, APPROPRIATION AND TAX RATES. HE ASKED IF THERE WAS ANYONE WISHING TO SPEAK REGARDING THAT ORDINANCE WHICH PERTAINS TO THE 2011 BUDGET, PLEASE COME FORWARD, STATING YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS.  ATTORNEY COPENHAVER SAID THE MINUTES SHOULD REFLECT THAT NO ONE WAS PRESENT TO SPEAK REGARDING THE ORDINANCE.%u3000

 

RESOLUTION:

AUTHORIZING TRANSFER OF FUNDS/STREET DEPT. WAS READ IN FULL BY SANDY YORK.

PRESIDENT YORK MOVED TO PASS THIS RESOLUTION.   COUNCILMAN HAHN: SECOND   ROLL CALL VOTE: SEVEN VOTES AYE. PASSED AND ORDERED.

DIRECTOR DAVIS INTRODUCED STEVE BIGGERSTAFF OF CINERGY METRONET.

     MR.BIGGERSTAFF OF CINERGY METRONET, GAVE A SHORT PRESENTATION. HE SAID WHAT THE COMPANY DOES IS TO PROVIDE OPTIC FIBER CABLE WHICH WILL BE OFFERED TO EVERY HOME IN NEW CASTLE. IT WILL INCLUDE HIGH SPEED INTERNET, TELEPHONE SERVICE AND CABLE TELEVISION. HE TOLD ABOUT AMENDING ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AREAS TO HELP FUND THE PROJECT WITH TAX INCREMENT FINANCE MONEY. HE SAID CINERGY WAS THE DESIGNATED TAXPAYER, MEANING THE ADDITIONAL PROPERTY TAXES CREATED BY THE PROJECT WOULD GO BACK TO CINERGY. HE SAID THE COMPANY OFFICE WOULD BE HOUSED IN THE MAXWELL COMMONS ON BROAD STREET. HE SAID THIS WAS AN ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT TOOL TO HELP MARKET THE COMMUNITY.

RESOLUTION:

APPROVING AN ORDER OF THE CITY PLANNING COMMISSION APPROVING CERTAIN AMENDMENTS TO A DECLARATORY RESOLUTION AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT PLAN (AMENDMENT TO SOUTHEAST DOWNTOWN ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT PLAN) WAS READ IN FULL BY SANDY YORK.     PRESIDENT YORK MOVED TO PASS THIS RESOLUTION.   COUNCILMAN HAHN: SECOND  

DISCUSSION: MR. BIGGERSTAFF WHENEVER YOU CHANGE THE PLAN, ON JULY 8TH, AT A REDEVELOPMENT COMMISSION MEETING, THEY APPROVED THE AMENDMENTS. THE PLANNING COMMISSION MADE SURE THAT THE PROPOSED PROJECT IS APPROVED, THEN TO THE CITY COUNCIL FOR APPROVAL, THEN BACK TO THE REDEVELOPMENT COMMISSION TO CONDUCT A PUBLIC HEARING AND THEN FINAL ACTION ON THE CREATION OF THE NEW AREA OR THE AMENDMENT OF THE PLAN. THE AMENDMENT WOULD BE #1, ADD TO YOUR EXISTING SOUTHEAST DOWNTOWN AREA. 2. ADD THEIR COMPANY AS DESIGNATED TAX PAYERS.  3. DEPRECIATED PROPERTY IN THE DOWNTOWN AREA.

     COUNCILMAN REID ASKED ABOUT THE METALDYNE ISSUE. HOW DID THIS DEAL WITH THE METALDYNE ISSUE?

     MR. BIGGERSTAFF SAID THE PROPERTY HAS DEPRECIATED SINCE 2002 OR 2003.

     COUNCILMAN REID ASKED IF THERE WAS A MAP OF THE TIF AREA.

     ATTORNEY COPENHAVER SAID THE BOUNDARIES WERE NOT CHANGING.  THE DISTRICT WILL NOT CHANGE. HOPEFULLY, SOMETHING WILL GO INTO METALDYNE. THAT IS IN THE TIF DISTRICT.

     COUNCILMAN REID SAID THAT NEAL'S RECYCLING CENTER IS NEXT DOOR.  HE ASKED IF THAT WAS IN THE TIF DISTRICT.

     ATTORNEY COPENHAVER SAID NO. THE OLD MODERNFOLD BUILDING WAS NEVER PUT IN THE TIF DISTRICT. IT WAS IN BAD SHAPE WHEN THIS WAS SET UP.

     COUNCILMAN REID SAID SINCE WE ARE NOT CHANGING THE BOUNDARIES, THAT WOULD TAKE ANOTHER SET OF RESOLUTION.

     ATTORNEY COPENHAVER SAID CORRECT.

     COUNCILMAN REID SAID HIS OTHER QUESTION WAS WE HAVE NAMED CINERGY METRONET AS SPECIFIC; ALL THE OTHER BUSINESSES IN THIS DISTRICT HAVE NOT BEEN NAMED.

     MR. BIGGERSTAFF SAID THE DIFFERENCE IS THE DESIGNATED TAX PAYERS HAVE A SPECIALIZED TERM RELATING TO PERSONAL PROPERTY. CERTAIN MANUFACTURING UTILITY COMPANIES CAN TIF THEIR PERSONAL PROPERTY.  IT IS RATHER UNUSUAL TO DO THAT. WHAT THEY DO IS WHY THEY ARE TAXABLE. THERE WILL BE 3 TIF DISTRICTS IN NEW CASTLE.

     COUNCILMAN REID SAID IF IT IS NOT IN THE TIF DISTRICT, IT WILL BE IN THE TAX PROPERTY BASE. IF IT IS IN THE TIF DISTRICT, NONE OF THE TAXES OF THESE ENTITIES PAY GO INTO OUR PROPERTY TAXES? UNTIL THE COMMISSION CHANGES THEIR MINDS, AND THE COUNCIL APPROVES THAT, ALL THE PERSONAL AND REAL PROPERTY TAXES THAT CINERGY METRONET WILL PAY GOES DIRECTLY INTO TIF.

     UMBAUGH REPRESENTATIVE STATED THE FIRST FOUR MILLION. THE TEN MILLION IS IN THE TAX BASE.

     ATTORNEY COPENHAVER SAID THE NEW TAX GENERATED, IN OTHER WORDS, THE PROPERTY RIGHT NOW IS GENERATING NO TAXES, THE CITY OWNS IT.  IT ADDS NOTHING TO YOUR TAX BASE NOW. THIS WAS AN INCENTIVE FOR CINERGY METRONET TO COME IN AND MAKE THE INVESTMENT. IF IT WASN'T FOR THEIR INVESTMENT, THE TAX REVENUE WOULD NOT EXIST. WE WANTED SOMEONE IN HERE TO HIRE PEOPLE FOR JOBS, WHERE CURRENTLY JOBS DON'T EXIST.

     COUNCILMAN REID SAID HE UNDERSTOOD BUT CINERGY WAS HERE FIVE OR SIX YEARS AGO AND SAID WE DEFINITELY BE MOVING INTO NEW CASTLE. AT THAT TIME, THERE WERE NO PLANS TO GIVE TIF MONEY. IS THIS REALLY AN INCENTIVE? HE SAID CINERGY HAS ALREADY STRUNG A LOT OF FIBER IN NEW CASTLE.

     MR. BIGGERSTAFF SAID YES WE HAVE BUT WITHOUT THIS, WE WON'T STRING ANYMORE.

     ATTORNEY COPENHAVER SAID THAT IF CINERGY HAD PUT THERE HUT DOWN ON STATE ROAD 3, WE WOULDN'T BE HERE TODAY. BEING THAT THEY DIDN'T, THE RETAIL STORE WILL BE DOWNTOWN IN NEW CASTLE. THIS WILL BE A REGULAR BUSINESS AND WILL DRAW CUSTOMERS TO DOWNTOWN. WISH THIS WAS A WAY TO HIRE A THOUSAND PEOPLE, EVEN A HUNDRED PEOPLE, BUT YOU TAKE WHAT YOU CAN GET. YOU DO WHAT YOU CAN TO GET THE INVESTMENT.  GET THOSE CUSTOMERS AND EMPLOYEES DOWNTOWN. GET BUSINESS TO RELOCATE DOWNTOWN.  ATTORNEY COPENHAVER SAID THAT THE TAX REVENUE WOULD BE NORMALLY DIVIDED BETWEEN ALL THE TAXING DISTRICTS BUT BECAUSE THIS IS A TIF AREA, 100% GOES BACK INTO THE AREA. SINCE ALL THE INFRASTRUCTURE IS DOWNTOWN, IT IS A 100% INVESTMENT IN THE DOWNTOWN.  HE SAID IF THIS BOND WAS PAID OFF, AND THE TIF DISTRICT WAS STILL IN EXISTENCE, AND IT STILL CREATING MONEY, THE MONEY WILL GO TO THE TIF DISTRICT. RIGHT NOW, ALL THE MONEY THE TIF HAS BEEN A CASH AS YOU GO.  THE MONEY GENERATED FROM THE TIF DISTRICT UP TO NOW HAS DONE ALL THE FAÇADE GRANT PROGRAMS THAT THE DOWNTOWN HAS BEEN ABLE TO DO.

     MR. BIGGERSTAFF SAID WHEN THESE BONDS ARE ISSUED; THERE IS NO WAY THE CITY CAN BE HELD LIABLE, NO POSSIBLE WAY.  YES, WE HAVE TIF. THAT IS THE ONLY POSSIBLE SOURCE OF REPAYMENT. THERE IS NO WAY CINERGY METRONET CAN SAY, WE BOUGHT THIS BOND, WE NEED ANOTHER SOURCE OF PAYMENT. IF THEY GO BELLY UP, THEY GO BELLY UP AND WALK AWAY.

     COUNCILMAN REID SAID SO THE TAX PAYERS WILL BE OFF THE HOOK.

     ATTORNEY COPENHAVER SAID THERE IS NO WAY THE TAX PAYERS WILL BE ON THE HOOK. THERE HAS BEEN A DESIRE TO LIMIT THE TERMS OF THE BONDS, SHORTER AT 17 YEARS. THE TIF AREA HAS A MAXIMUM OF 25 YEARS. ONCE THE BONDS ARE PAID OFF, THEY ARE PAID OFF.

RESOLUTION:

APPROVING AN ORDER OF THE CITY PLANNING COMMISSION APPROVING A CERTAIN DECLARATORY RESOLUTION AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT PLAN (INDIANA AVENUE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AREA) WAS READ BY SANDY YORK. 

PRESIDENT YORK MOVED TO PASS THIS RESOLUTION.  COUNCILMAN REID: SECOND  ROLL CALL VOTE: SEVEN VOTES AYE. PASSED AND ORDERED.

AUTHORIZING THE CITY TO ISSUES ITS TAXABLE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT REVENUE BONDS, SERIES 2010 AND APPROVING OTHER ACTIONS IN RESPECT THERETO (TIF BONDS ASSOCIATED WITH INDIANA AVENUE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AREA) WAS READ BY SANDY YORK ON FIRST READING.

PRESIDENT YORK MOVED TO PASS THIS ORDINANCE ON FIRST READING.  COUNCILADY GOODMAN: SECOND.

DISCUSSION: COUNCILMAN REID SAID HE HAD QUESTIONS. HE SAID HE WAS ON THE SAME PAGE WITH THIS ORDINANCE. HE WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT IF SOMETHING HAPPENS, THE TAX PAYERS WERE NOT GOING TO BE ON THE HOOK FOR IT AND HE WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT THIS COMPANY WAS GOING TO BRING THE VALUE THAT IS DISCUSSED IN THE MARKETING. HE SAID HIS QUESTIONS HAVE BEEN SATISFIED.

     PRESIDENT YORK SAID SHE WAS A BOARD MEMBER OF THE DOWNTOWN REDEVELOPMENT COMMISSION SO SHE IS AWARE OF WHAT IS GOING ON.  ALSO, ON THE PLANNING COMMISSION. SO SHE FELT AS THOUGH SHE WAS A LITTLE BIT MORE FAMILIAR WITH WHAT HAS BEEN SAID IN THE PRESENTATION. SHE SAID SHE WAS ALSO SATISFIED. THE QUESTIONS SHE HAD, HAD BEEN ANSWERED.

     MAYOR SMALL SAID THAT ORDINANCE #3602 WILL APPEAR ON THE WEBSITE IN ITS ENTIRETY.

     ATTORNEY COPENHAVER SAID HE HAD BEEN INVOLVED IN SEVERAL TIF FINANCING AND NEVER HAVE WE HAD THE CITY TAX PAYER GUARANTEED PAYMENTS WITH PROPERTY TAX REVENUES. THAT CAN BE DONE BUT THAT COULD NEVER BE RECOMMENDED TO NEW CASTLE. THE ONLY WAY WE WOULD, IS IF THE PROJECT WAS SO EXCEPTIONAL THAT YOU ALL FELT THAT YOU HAD TO DO THAT.

2011 APPROPRIATIONS AND TAX RATES WAS READ BY TITLE ONLY ON SECOND READING ON BY SANDY YORK.

PRESIDENT YORK MOVED TO PASS THIS ORDINANCE.  COUNCILADY GOODMAN: SECOND  ROLL CALL VOTE: SEVEN VOTES AYE. PASSED AND ORDERED.

PROHIBITING TRUCK TRAFFIC TO CERTAIN STREETS WAS READ IN FULL ON FIRST READING BY SANDY YORK.  PRESIDENT YORK SAID SHE WANTED TO KNOW WHO IS GOING TO ENFORCE THIS ORDINANCE BEFORE SHE MADE THE MOTION.

     POLICE CHIEF NICHOLSON SAID THE POLICE WILL.

     MAYOR SMALL SAID WE ONLY HAVE ONE STREET RIGHT NOW THAT HAS RESTRICTIONS TO THAT. THAT IS RILEY ROAD.

     PRESIDENT YORK SAID THAT GRAND AVENUE HAS IT FROM SOUTH 15TH STREET TO SOUTH 25TH STREET. SHE SAID THERE IS NO ENFORCEMENT.

     MAYOR SMALL SAID IT IS A SPEED LIMIT.

     PRESIDENT YORK SAID NO, IT'S A WEIGHT LIMIT.

     CHIEF NICHOLSON SAID HE HAS HAD OFFICERS SIT DOWN THERE FOR HOURS WITH NO RESULTS.

     COUNCILMAN REID SAID HE FELT AS IF WE ARE GOING ABOUT OUR ORDINANCES BACKWARDS. WHY DON'T WE DO A BLANKET ORDINANCE PROHIBITING TRUCK TRAFFIC AND A SECOND ORDINANCE WITH EXCEPTIONS?  WOULDN'T THAT BE EASIER?

     ATTORNEY COPENHAVER SAID THE COUNCIL WOULD HAVE TO MAKE UP A SCHEDULE.

     COUNCILMAN REID SAID WE HAVE TO HAVE SIGNS UP AND DON'T NOW. HE SAID SEMIS SHOULD BE DISALLOWED IN NEW CASTLE.

     PRESIDENT YORK SAID WE HAVE MORE SEMIS THAN PEOPLE REALIZE. WE DON'T WANT IT TO SEEM WE ARE UNFRIENDLY. WE DO HAVE TO LOOK AT THE INFRASTRUCTURE ON OUR STREETS. THANKS TO THE STATE, WE DON'T HAVE ANY MONEY TO PUT IN NEW STREETS.  SHE SAID CERTAIN TRUCKS DO NOT FIT INTO THIS CATEGORY, SUCH AS BREAD AND MILK TRUCKS.

     COUNCILMAN REID SAID HE HAD A TV DELIVERED TO HIS HOUSE AND IT WAS BROUGHT ON AN 18 WHEELER. WITHOUT A SCALE, HE DIDN'T KNOW HOW WE CAN ENFORCE IT ANYWAYS.

     PRESIDENT YORK SAID SHE WAS MAKING THE MOTION TO PASS THIS ORDINANCE ON FIRST READING AND ASKED THE TRAFFIC COMMITTEE TO COME UP WITH AN ALTERNATIVE BEFORE THE NEXT MEETING.

     COUNCILMAN REID: SECOND. HE ASKED THAT AN AMENDMENT BE ADDED, TO INCLUDE INDIANA AVENUE.

     COUNCILMAN KIDD SAID HE DIDN'T THINK THAT WAS A GOOD IDEA. HE SAID IT IS SO CLOSE TO THE DOWNTOWN AND YOU HAVE ALL THOSE DOWNTOWN BUSINESSES WAITING ON DELIVERIES.

     PRESIDENT YORK SAID SHE WAS GOING TO INCLUDE COUNCILMAN REID'S AMENDMENT.

     ATTORNEY COPENHAVER SAID THAT THERE IS A PROVISION IN THAT CODE THAT EXEMPTS DELIVERIES TO BUSINESSES.

     COUNCILMAN REID SAID WE CAN PROHIBIT ALL INGRESS AND EGRESS TO THE CITY EXCEPT FOR THE STATE HIGHWAY AND OUR DESIGNATED TRUCK ROUTES.

     COUNCILMAN KOGER SAID WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO DO THAT?

     COUNCILMAN REID SAID BECAUSE OF THE WEAR AND TEAR ON THE ROADS.

     COUNCILMAN KOGER SAID THAT IS JUST A BIG SIGN SAYING WE DON'T WANT YOU IN OUR COMMUNITY.

     PRESIDENT YORK SAID NONE OF US WANT THAT.  SHE SAID SHE THOUGHT THIS ORDINANCE WAS GOING TO TAKE CARE OF OUR MAJOR THOROUGHFARES. THIS WILL COVER THE MAIN ONES AND STILL GET THOSE TRUCKS TO THE TRUCK ROUTES.

     COUNCILMAN REID SAID HE KNEW SEMIS HAD TO GO UP INDIANA AVENUE. THE INTERSECTIONS ARE NOT BIG ENOUGH TO MAKE TURNS FOR A SEMI.

     PRESIDENT YORK ASKED COUNCILMAN REID IF HE WANTED TO RESEND HIS AMENDMENT?

     COUNCILMAN REID SAID YES.

MARILYN BOWMAN, OWNER OF MARILYN'S FLOWERS IN PAYNE VILLAGE, SAID SHE HAD RECEIVED A LETTER, AS DID 23 OTHER BUSINESS OWNERS, FROM THE BUILDING INSPECTORS OFFICE, STATING SHE HAD TO REMOVE A YELLOW SIGN THAT SAT IN FRONT OF HER BUSINESS SINCE 1984. SHE SAID SHE USED THE SIGN TO NOTIFY PEOPLE OF COMMUNITY INFORMATION. SHE SAID SHE UPDATED HER SIGN TO WISH A HAPPY SUMMER, MERRY CHRISTMAS, ETC.  SHE SAID WHEN SHE RECEIVED THIS LETTER, WHICH MANY OTHER BUSINESS OWNER RECEIVED, TELLING THEM THEY WERE IN VIOLATION OF CITY CODE.  SHE SAID SHE HAD NEVER HEARD ANYTHING ABOUT IT BEFORE BUT DID REMOVE HER SIGN.  MRS. BOWMAN ASKED WHEN THIS ORDINANCE WAS PASSED.    

     ATTORNEY COPENHAVER SAID IT WAS IN THE 90'S. ABOUT 10 YEARS AGO.

     MS. BOWMAN SAID SHE HAD NEVER GOTTEN ANYTHING STATING SHE COULDN'T HAVE HER SIGN.

     COUNCILMAN KIDD SAID HE THOUGHT IT WAS IN THE 80'S.

     ATTORNEY COPENHAVER SAID IF MS. BOWMAN WANTED TO SEE A COPY OF THIS ORDINANCE, CONTACT THE BUILDING INSPECTOR. HE SAID HE KNEW WHAT KIND OF SIGN SHE WAS TALKING ABOUT AND HE BELIEVED THE SIGN CAN BE UP 60 DAYS AT A TIME.

     MS. BOWMAN ASKED WHY SHE WAS NEVER NOTIFIED BEFORE THAT SHE COULDN'T HAVE A SIGN.

     ATTORNEY COPENHAVER SAID THE CITY HAS JUST STARTED ENFORCING THE ORDINANCE.

     MS. BOWMAN SAID SHE CALLED MR. HALL, BUILDING INSPECTOR AND ASKED FOR A RETURN CALL BUT DID NOT GET ONE.

     ATTORNEY COPENHAVER SAID THE DAY AFTER THE ORDINANCE WAS PUBLISHED IN THE NEWSPAPER, WHICH WOULD HAVE BEEN BACK 45 DAYS OF ITS PASSAGE; YOU SHOULD HAVE GOTTEN A LETTER.

     MS. BOWMAN SAID SHE AND THE OTHERS HAD NOT.

     ATTORNEY COPENHAVER SAID SHE WOULDN'T HAVE. THEY WOULD HAVE HAD TO DO A SURVEY ALL OVER TOWN AND SENT A LETTER TO EACH BUT THAT WAS NOT DONE.

     MS. BOWMAN SAID THEY DIDN'T RECEIVE A LETTER THEN. JUST RECEIVED ONE RECENTLY.

     COUNCILMAN REID SAID HE HAD A QUESTION. WE HAVE A SIGN, ON PRIVATE PROPERTY, NOT OBSCURING A ROADWAY AND NOT DOWNTOWN WHERE WE HAVE THE HISTORICAL PRESERVATION RESTRICTIONS, WHY ARE WE MAKING A FUSS OUT OF THIS NOW. HE SAID HE THOUGHT IT WAS CRAZY.

     COUNCILMAN KIDD SAID HE THOUGHT THE ORDINANCE SHOULD BE REVISED.   STUDY IT AMONG OURSELVES.

     COUNCILMAN REID SAID HE UNDERSTOOD IT IF IT WAS AT SOMEBODY'S HOUSE OR BLOCKING TRAFFIC OR IN THE HISTORICAL PRESERVATION AREA, IF IT IS IN ANOTHER AREA, HE WASN'T SURE WHY WE ARE DOING THAT.

     ATTORNEY COPENHAVER SAID THAT THE ORDINANCE, AT THAT TIME, NEW CASTLE NEEDED A SIGN ORDINANCE. COPIES OF ORDINANCES WERE GATHERED FROM OTHER COUNTIES. WE TOOK THOSE ORDINANCES AND SIMPLIFIED THEM AND CAME UP WITH AN ORDINANCE THAT WAS COMFORTABLE WITH OTHER CENTRAL INDIANA COMMUNITIES. THERE WERE PUBLIC HEARINGS ON THAT ORDINANCE FOR AT LEAST 6 MONTHS. THAT IS THE ORDINANCE THAT WE HAVE NOW. THE ORDINANCE CAN BE AMENDED.

     COUNCILMAN HAHN SAID WHY THE ORDINANCE WAS WRITTEN, PEOPLE PUT THEM IN THEIR YARDS AND OTHER PEOPLE COMPLAINED BECAUSE THEY COULDN'T SEE AROUND THEM WHEN MAKING A TURN. IT WAS IMPLEMENTED FOR SAFETY REASONS. WE CAN GO BACK AND LOOK AT IT ONCE AGAIN.

     MS. BOWMAN SAID, IF THE SIGN IS ON PRIVATE PROPERTY, SHE PAYS RENT; SHE PAYS LOT ASSESSMENTS, WHAT RIGHT DO YOU HAVE TO TELL ME I CAN'T HAVE A SIGN?

     ATTORNEY COPENHAVER SAID THERE ARE STATE AND FEDERAL LAWS THAT SAYS A COMMUNITY CAN RESTRICT SIGNAGE ON PRIVATE PROPERTY. THAT IS NOT UNIQUE TO NEW CASTLE. THEY CAN BE REGULATED FOR SAFETY REASONS AND COMPLAINTS THAT THE SIGNS DON'T LOOK GOOD.

     PRESIDENT YORK SAID THE SPECIAL ISSUES COMMITTEE WILL REVISIT THIS ORDINANCE.WE CAN ASK FOR A MORATORIUM UNTIL THIS IS RESOLVED.

     MS. BOWMAN ASKED IF SHE COULD HER SIGN BACK UP SINCE SHE FOLLOWED THE RULES?

     ATTORNEY COPENHAVER SAID AS OF TODAY, THAT SIGN IS NOT PERMITTED.  WE HAVE AN ORDINANCE THAT SAYS IT'S NOT AND UNTIL THE COUNCIL AMENDS THE ORDINANCE OR CHANGE IT, THERE IS A CITY ORDINANCE THAT SAYS YOU CAN'T HAVE THAT SIGN.

     COUNCILADY MALONE SAID YOU HAVE TO THINK OF THE ECONOMY. SOME BUSINESSES ARE DOWN ON SOUTH 14TH WHERE THE ROAD CONSTRUCTION WENT THROUGH THE LAST THREE YEARS THAT HAS HURT THEIR BUSINESSES.

     PRESIDENT YORK SAID FROM THIS MOMENT ON, DO WHAT THE ORDINANCE SAYS TODAY.

     MS. BOWMAN SAID WHAT HAPPENS IF DAIRY QUEEN DOESN'T TAKE THEIR SIGNS DOWN? WILL THEY HAVE TO PAY A FINE?

     COUNCILMAN REID SAID THE COUNCIL MUST REVISIT THIS ORDINANCE. IF THERE IS A SAFETY ISSUE, OR SOMEBODY HAS A BIG FLASHING LIGHT OUT THERE, 24/7, THAT IS ONE THING BUT HE SAID HE DIDN'T KNOW IF IT WAS UP TO THE CITY COUNCIL, OTHER THAN THE HISTORICAL PRESERVATION DISTRICT, TO DESIGNATE AESTHETICS FOR SIGNAGE. HE SAID HE WANTED THE COUNCIL TO LOOK AT THIS BECAUSE HE THINKS THE ORDINANCE IS ANTI-BUSINESS WHEN IT COMES TO SIGNAGE.

     COUNCILMAN KOGER SAID HE AGREED BUT WANTED TO HEAR FROM THE ADMINISTRATION ON WHY THE LETTERS WERE SENT. WHY, IN OTHER WORDS, PICKING ON THESE BUSINESSES. WE NEED TO HEAR FROM YOU MAYOR OF WHY THIS IS BEING DONE AND GET IT OFF THE COUNCIL'S BACK.

     MAYOR SMALL SAID WE ARE NOT PICKING ON BUSINESS. THIS IS PROBABLY PHASE 5 AND PHASE 6. IF YOU DRIVE INTO NEW CASTLE, COMING OFF THE INTERSTATE, WE HAVE A HORRIBLE ENTRANCE. IF YOU CAN REMEMBER 3 YEARS AGO, STATE ROAD 3 WAS TACKY LOOKING. WE HAVE MADE CONSIDERABLE END ROADS. IF YOU GO UP AND DOWN STATE ROAD 3 NOW, YOU'LL SEE GOOD SIGNAGE, SEE A HIGHWAY THAT IS IMPRESSIVE, A HIGHWAY SIMILAR TO STATE ROAD 9 IN GREENFIELD. MOST CITIES DO NOT ALLOW TEMPORARY SIGNS, ESPECIALLY IN THE RIGHT OF WAY OF THE ROADS.  HE SAID HE THOUGHT STATE ROAD 3 IS VERY GOOD BECAUSE OF THE EFFORTS THAT WE HAVE MADE THERE. HE SAID HE WAS VERY PROUD OF THE CHANGES THAT THEY MADE TO THIS MAJOR ARTERY OF NEW CASTLE. WE ARE JUST NOW STARTING TO SPREAD OUT TO THE OTHER AREAS, ENFORCING CODES THAT WERE ALREADY WRITTEN BY THE CITY COUNCIL. UNFORTUNATELY, WE CAN NOT LEGISLATE GOOD TASTE. MOST OF THESE SIGNS ARE IN GOOD TASTE.  THE ORDINANCE WILL STAY UNTIL IT IS CHANGED. THE ORDINANCE STAYS YOU CAN HAVE ONLY ONE SIGN ON YOUR BUSINESS PROPERTY. SO, ARE YOUR GOING TO SAY, MARILYN'S HOUSE OF FLOWERS OR HAVE A 4 BY 8 SIGN. HOW MANY SIGNS DO WE ALLOW A BUSINESS TO HAVE? ALL THE LIQUOR STORES ON STATE ROAD 3 USE TO BE HORRIBLE. THEY WOULD HAVE DOZENS OF SIGNS AND NOW THEY ARE DOWN TO ONE OR TWO. WE ARE TRYING TO CLEAN THE CITY UP SO THAT IT IS IMPRESSIVE TO VISITORS AND FOR INDUSTRY WHO WANTS TO COME IN. INDUSTRY IS NOT GOING TO BRING A FACTORY INTO A TACKY LOOKING CITY. A NEAT CITY SUCH AS GREENFIELD, THAT IS IMPRESSIVE. COME OFF I-70 ON STATE ROAD 9, STATE STREET IN GREENFIELD, YOU SEE A TOWN THAT HAS GOT THEIR ACT TOGETHER.

     COUNCILMAN KOGER SAID WE ARE COMPARING APPLES TO ORANGES WITH GREENFIELD. THEY ARE 100 FEET OFF THE INTERSTATE. ABOUT 4 MILES OFF.

     MAYOR SMALL SAID THEY ARE MUCH BETTER LOOKING THAN WE ARE.

     COUNCILMAN REID SAID HE DIDN'T THINK THAT IS A REASONABLE THING FOR THIS COUNCIL OR ADMINISTRATION WEIGHS INTO. HE SAID HE COULDN'T TELL THE DIFFERENCE IN STATE ROAD 3 IN THE PAST 3 YEARS OTHER THAN THE GO TROJAN SIGNS THAT EVERYBODY WAS EXCITED ABOUT AND THE PEOPLE IN THIS COMMUNITY WAS PROUD OF. THEY HAVE ALL BEEN TAKEN DOWN. HE SAID THAT WAS THE ONLY DIFFERENCE THAT HE NOTICED ON STATE ROAD 3.  JUST BECAUSE MARILYN HAS A THIS IS MY HOUR SIGN AND THIS IS MY BUSINESS SIGN AND A YELLOW SIGN SITTING AGAINST HER BUILDING, THAT HAS BEEN THERE 34 YEARS, IT IS NOT HURTING ANYTHING AND IF IT HELPS HER DO BUSINESS, THEN HE WAS ALL FOR IT. IF YOU PUT A GREAT BIG FLAMING BILL BOARD ON TOP, SPINS AROUND WITH A TORNADO SIREN ON IT, THAT'S DIFFERENT. WE ARE NOT EVER GOING TO LOOK LIKE CARMEL AND HE DIDN'T THINK THE PEOPLE IN THIS TOWN WANT TO LOOK LIKE A CARMEL. PEOPLE IN THIS TOWN ARE PROUD OF THEIR WORKING CLASS HERITAGE. SOME OF THE SIGNAGE EFFORTS, EVEN IN GOOD INTENTIONS, HAVE TURNED A LOT OF PEOPLE OFF. THAT IS ONE OF THE BIG COMPLAINTS HE HAS HEARD. HE SAID IT COMES OFF AS YOU'RE NOT GOOD ENOUGH, WE'RE GOING TO MAKE YOU BETTER. WE NEED TO GO BACK AND REVISIT.

     COUNCILMAN KOGER SAID IT WAS NO DIFFERENT THAT STAR BANK PUTTING UP A SIGN, LOANS 6.9%. WE COULD GO ON AND ON. IF YOU'RE GOING TO ENFORCE THE ORDINANCE, THEN ENFORCE IT ON EVERYBODY AND GET GOING ON IT.

     MAYOR SMALL SAID I DIDN'T WRITE THE ORDINANCE, THE COUNCIL DID.

     PRESIDENT YORK SAID RIGHT NOW, WE ARE GOING TO REVISIT IT.

     MS. BOWMAN SAID SHE APPRECIATED ALL THE WORK FROM THE COUNCIL BUT SHE SAID OUR SIGNS MAKE US MONEY AND OUR MONEY IS WHAT PAYS OUR TAXES AND OUR TAXES PAY YOUR SALARIES. SHE SAID REVISIT THE ORDINANCE AND ANY UGLY SIGNS, ASK THEM TO CLEAN IT UP. SHE ASKED WHEN THIS ORDINANCE WOULD COME UP AGAIN.

     PRESIDENT YORK SAID AS SOON AS WE CAN GET TO WORK ON IT. AS SOON AS MRS. LAVARNWAY GETS A CHANCE TO PULL THE ORDINANCES.  SHE SAID MUNCIE WAS ALSO DOING THE CLEAN UP OF RUMMAGE SALES SIGNS.

     GREG YORK, 519 SOUTH 11TH STREET, SAID THIS IS RIDICULOUS. IF YOU TRY TO BE IN BUSINESS IN THIS TOWN, YOU SHOULD RE-THINK THIS. IT IS A HUGH DIFFERENCE IN A LAS VEGAS SIGN.  HE SAID HE AGREED. THERE ARE NO CORDS RUNNING ACROSS MARILYN'S SIDEWALK.

     COUNCILMAN HAHN SAID WE ARE GOING BACK AND RE-VISIT THE ORDINANCE.  THE SPECIAL ISSUES COMMITTEE WILL BRING IT BACK TO THE COUNCIL AND EITHER AMEND OR CHANGE IT BUT WE WANT TO GET THOSE INVOLVED TOGETHER WITH US AND SEE WHAT CAN BE DONE. IF WE DO ALLOW IT FOR THE YELLOW SIGNS, WE GOT TO MAKE SURE THAT WHEN WE DO CHANGE IT, GET PEOPLE SAYING YOUR GOT THOSE SIGNS OUT THERE AGAIN AND WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT THIS. WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE WE DON'T CHANGE SOMETHING, THEN HAVE TO CHANGE IT BACK.

     MR. YORK SAID HE COULDN'T SEE SOMEBODY PULLING UP IN FRONT OF MARILYN'S AND SAYING THE SIGN IS IN THE WAY. FOR SOMEBODY WHO IS CRYING ABOUT A SIGN THAT I HAVE, ON PROPERTY THAT I OWN, HE HAD A PROBLEM WITH THAT. HE SAID HE HEARS CONTRACTORS EVERYDAY LAUGHING ABOUT GETTING OUT OF GETTING A BUILDING PERMIT. WHY ARE WE NOT TAKING CARE OF BUILDING THAT IS GOING ON IN TOWN AND INSTEAD OF WORRYING ABOUT THESE SIGNS? EVERYTHING HE HEARD TONIGHT WILL RUN ABOUT 98% OF BUSINESS OUT OF TOWN. YOU BETTER RETHINK EVERYTHING THAT YOU TALKED ABOUT TONIGHT.

     MIKE McKOWN, SOUTH 14TH ST. SAID HE WAS GOING TO START ON A POSITIVE NOTE. THE TRASH ORDINANCE THAT WAS PUT IN, ADVERSELY AFFECTED US AS LANDLORDS. HE WANTED TO THANK THE CITY AND MR. PLUMMER FOR TAKING CARE OF THAT. HE SAID HE WAS ONE OF THE BAD GUYS. HE HAD A YELLOW SIGN, BUT HIS IS WHITE. IT IS A 3X5 SIGN THAT WAS WITH THE BUILDING WHEN HE BOUGHT IT. THE SIGN WENT UP IN '88 OR '89. HE SAID MR. HALL TOLD HIM HIS SIGN DID NOT CONFORM. HE SUBMITTED A DRAWING OF WHICH HE IS PUTTING IN A LIMESTONE PLANTER IN, FIX THE SIGN AND PUT A ROOF OVER IT AND MAKE IT LOOK NICE. HE SAID NOW THEY SAY THE SIGN CAN NOT BE WITHIN 100 FEET OF A RESIDENTIAL HOME. SO, HIS PLANS ARE ON HOLD. EVERY SIGN THAT HE HAS IN COMMERCIAL PROPERTY THAT HE OWNS, ARE PROBABLY WITHIN A 100 FOOT OF A RESIDENTIAL HOME. THIS ALSO NEEDS TOP BE ADDRESSED. EVERY SIGN IN THE DOWNTOWN ARE IS WITH IN 100 FEET OF A RESIDENTIAL HOME. THE HOME BEHIND MY BUSINESS IS IN A COMMERCIAL AREA. THE PASSING OF THE TRASH ORDINANCE, NO ONE THOUGHT IT WOULD EFFECT US LIKE IT DID. A REMEDY HAD TO BE MADE QUICKLY OR IT WOULD HAVE PUT HIM AND OTHERS OUT OF BUSINESS. THIS SIGN ORDINANCE IS AFFECTING BUSINESSES. HE SAID IT WAS WONDERFUL THAT MR. HUCKABEE GIVES HALF PRICED ICE CREAM TO THE SCHOOL KIDS. PUTTING FROG LEGS ON A SIGN IN FRONT OF A BUSINESS BROUGHT IN $900.00 A MONTH MORE TO PAY FOR PEOPLE TO WORK.   HE SAID MR. HALL HAS AN UNBELIEVABLE JOB TO ENFORCE ALL HE DOES. THE WORRYING ABOUT IF A SIGN IS TO CLOSE OR NOT. HE SAID HE HAS NO PROBLEM WITH A LETTER THAT SAYS YOUR SIGN IS TACKY, CLEAN IT UP. HE SAID HE WOULD CLEAN UP A SIGN BUT HAS A PROBLEM WITH TELLING HIM HE CAN'T HAVE A SIGN AT ALL BECAUSE IT IS WITHIN 100 FEET OF A HOUSE.

     ATTORNEY COPENHAVER SAID THE ORDINANCE IS SET UP TO DEAL WITH EXCEPTIONS. FOR EXAMPLE: IF YOU HAD A SIGN IN FRONT OF A BUSINESS, NEXT TO A HOUSE, YOU CAN KEEP THAT SIGN THERE IF IT5 WAS THERE BEFORE THE ORDINANCE WAS PASSED. BUT, IF YOU WANT TO REBUILD THAT SIGN, YOU CAN COME AND GET A VARIANCE TO DO THAT.

     MR. McKOWN SAID THAT WOULD BE AN ADDITIONAL $300.00 EXPENSE.

     ATTORNEY COPENHAVER SAID ALL HE WAS SAYING IS THAT THE ORDINANCE IS SET UP TO DEAL WITH EXCEPTIONS. THIS IS NOT AN ORDINANCE THAT IS UNIQUE TO NEW CASTLE. COUNCIL CAN ADAPT HOWEVER YOU WANT TO BUT%u2026.

     MR. McKOWN ASKED WHY THEY HAD TO TAKE DOWN THEIR SIGNS WHILE COUNCIL MADE UP THEIR MINDS.

     COUNCILMAN REID SAID HE AGREED WITH MIKE. HE FELT THERE SHOULD BE A MORATORIUM ON THE ENFORCEMENT.

     COUNCILMAN KIDD SAID THE ORDINANCE IS IN PLAY. WE COULD LOOK THE OTHER WAY.

     COUNCILMAN KOGER SAID THAT WAS HIS POINT.

     MR. McKOWN SAID HIS SIGN LOOKS LIKE HELL AND HE WILL FIX IT. THAT IS NOT THE PROBLEM. THE PROBLEM IS THE ELIMINATION OF IT.

     MAYOR SMALL SAID WE ARE TALKING ABOUT TEMPORARY SIGNS.

     MR. McKOWN SAID IT IS A TEMPORARY SIGN THAT HAS BEEN THERE FOREVER.

     COUNCILMAN REID SAID THIS BRINGS UP A BIGGER ISSUE FOR HIM. THIS CITY IS ALMOST HOSTILE TO SMALL BUSINESS. HE SAID HE DIDN'T THINK IT WAS INTENTIONAL BUT TAKE AN EXAMPLE: HE LOOKED AT A PROPERTY ON 9TH ST.  THE PLACE HAD BEEN A GROCERY FOR YEARS, THEN A CHURCH ETC., THEN SAT EMPTY AS IT IS TODAY. WE WANTED TO PUT IN A RETAIL STORE THERE, COMPUTERS AND EQUIPMENT AND POSSIBLY A BAKERY. WE LOOKED AT THAT, HAD TO GO THROUGH A VARIANCE, JUMP THROUGH HOOPS, SAID WE COULDN'T HAVE MORE THAN 2 CARS PARKED IN FRONT OF THE BUILDING AT A TIME, ONLY FOR CERTAIN HOURS. THE VARIANCE GOT APPROVED BUT AFTER LOOKING AT IT, HAVING TO PUT $20,000.00 INTO IT, TO MAKE IT FUNCTIONAL, WHAT WAS THE POINT? JUST LET IT SIT THERE EMPTY. AND IT STILL IS. WE HAVE ZONING ORDINANCES, AFTER A BUILDING HAS BEEN SITTING EMPTY FOR X NUMBER OF YEARS; IT REVERTS TO THE ZONING AROUND IT. THE ONLY THING NOW, DEMOLISH AND PUT IN A PARKING LOT. THIS TOWN OVER THE YEARS HAS BECOME HOSTILE TO SMALL BUSINESS.

     ATTORNEY COPENHAVER SAID IF YOU LOOK AT ZONING CODES, FROM EVERY COMMUNITY OUR SIZE, OR MAYBE EVERYTHING THIS SIDE OF THE MISSISSIPPI, YOU WOULD FIND SIMILAR REQUIREMENTS. EXAMPLE: WHAT HAPPENS WHEN A PROPERTY STAYS VACANT? THAT IS STATE LAW. THAT IS WHEN THE GRANDFATHER BECOMES OBSOLETE. DON'T THINK THESE ARE THINGS THAT NEW CASTLE CREATED. OUR ZONING CODES ARE LESS RESTRICTED THAN HENRY COUNTY'S BECAUSE THEN HAS A MUCH NEWER CODE. THE CODES ADOPTED IN THE LAST 10 YEARS ARE FAR MORE RESTRICTED. OURS IS OLD CODES, IT PREDATED HIM. THIS DOESN'T MEAN THAT THEY DON'T NEED TO BE CHANGED, BUT DON'T THINK WE HAVE CREATED A SET OF CIRCUMSTANCES HERE THAT IS UNIQUE TO NEW CASTLE. IF YOUR BUSINESS WAS IN ANOTHER DOZEN COMMUNITIES, YOU WOULD HAVE RECEIVED THE SAME KIND OF LETTER. THOSE SIGNS ARE PROHIBITED IN MANY TOWNS. IS IT RIGHT? NO. THAT IS UP TO COUNCIL. MOST OF OUR ORDINANCES THAT WE PASS, OF THAT NATURE, ARE ORDINANCES THAT WORK IN OTHER COMMUNITIES. IF THEY WORK THERE, WE TRY TO MAKE IT FIT OUR MODEL.

     MR. McKOWN SAID THERE ARE BIGGER FISH TO FRY. THIS ORDINANCE HAS BEEN ON THE BOOKS FOR 30 YEARS BUT NEVER ENFORCED, BUT, NOW HAVE DECIDED TOO.

     COUNCILMAN REID SAID A LOT OF THE BUILDING CODES CAME ABOUT IN THE EARLY 1900. THERE WAS A BIG PUSH TO SEPARATE THE LIVING AREAS FROM FACTORIES. WHAT A LOT OF PLANNERS HAVE FOUND OVER THE YEARS IS THAT CITIES IN THE EASTERN PART OF THE UNITED STATES, HAVE NOT ONLY ACCOMPLISHED THEIR JOB, BUT DROVE YOUR CORNER MARKETS OUT OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD, DROVE THE HANDY MAN AWAY, THAT LED TO DETERIORATION OF COMMUNITIES AND HELPED PUSH FOR THE BOXED THINGS THAT HAD THE EFFECT ON BUSINESS. YOU SEE OUT WEST, THEY ARE BEGINNING TO BUILD BACK INTO CORNER STORES AND THOSE SORTS OF THINGS. THAT HELPS KEEP THOSE DOLLARS IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND COMMUNITY. WE ARE NOT THERE YET.

     MR.McKNOW SAID HE HAS REHABBED ABOUT 50 HOUSES BUT CAN'T CONTINUE TO HAVE $1,500.00 SIGN ORDINANCES.

     COUNCILMAN HAHN SAID WHEN THE SPECIAL ISSUES COMMITTEE MEETS, THEY WILL CONTACT MS. BOWMAN AND MR. McKNOW. YOU CAN HAVE INPUT IN THIS MEETING.

     PHIL HUCKABEE, 2608 MAPLE DRIVE, SAID HE AND HIS WIFE OWN THE DAIRY QUEEN ON 14TH ST. THE LAST 2 YEARS, WAS REALLY BAD BECAUSE OF THE ROAD CONSTRUCTION. WE ALL SUFFERED IN THAT AREA. WE PUT A LOT OF MONEY IN THIS COMMUNITY. WE ADVERTISE WITH OUR SIGNS. WE DRAW PEOPLE IN WITH OUR SIGNS AND KEEP OUR BUSINESS UP.

     COUNCILADY MALONE AGREED THAT THE SIGN ORDINANCE NEEDED TO BE REVISITED.

    

MARY LOGAN ALSO WANTED THE SIGN ORDINANCE REVISITED. SHE SAID WE CAN'T LOOSE SMALL OR LARGE BUSINESSES. MRS. LOGAN ALSO REMINDED THE COUNCIL AND ADMINISTRATION THAT THE WEEDS ON BROAD STREET ARE WORSE THAN ANY TACKY SIGNS. SHE SAID THE GRASS AROUND SCHOOLS IS SO TALL, YOU CAN'T SEE THE STUDENTS STANDING THERE. SHE SAID SHE HAS MADE SEVERAL CALLS ON THE WEEDS. FINALLY, A PRIVATE CITIZEN WHO LIVES ACROSS THE STREET FROM EASTWOOD SCHOOL MOWED A PATH DOWN A AVENUE, NEXT TO THE SCHOOL. WHEN WE CAN'T TAKE CARE OF OUR CITY, KEEP OUR STREETS LOOKING GOOD, KEEP THE WEEDS MOWED DOWN, THEN SHE DIDN'T FEEL AS THOUGH THE CITY CAN TELL ANYONE THAT THEY HAVE A TACKY SIGN. THEIR TACKY SIGN PROMOTES THEIR BUSINESS AND BRINGS MONEY IN TO OUR COMMUNITY. SHE FELT AS THOUGH THE CITY JUST DOESN'T CARE ABOUT THE CHILDREN.

     MAYOR SMALL ASKS BUILDING INSPECTOR HALL HOW MANY CITATIONS HE HAS ISSUED ABOUT TALL GRASS.

     INSPECTOR HALL SAID OVER 500.

     COUNCILMAN KOGER SAID HE AGREED WITH MRS. LOGAN BUT HE KNOWS THE CITY CARES ABOUT THE CHILDREN AND THE CITY.

     MAYOR SMALL SAID THE WEEDS ON BROAD AND 15TH STREET WAS MOWED BY TWO YOUNG PEOPLE, UNDER THE DIRECTION OF THE BUILDING INSPECTOR.  HE SAID THOSE TWO ARE GOING TO BE TERMINATED BECAUSE THE UNION SAYS WE CAN'T HIRE THEM BECAUSE WE HAVE PEOPLE LAID OFF. THERE WAS GOOD WORK DONE BY THOSE TWO AT BAKER PARK. THE TWO WERE CARRIE AND JOSH. WE HAVE A GRIEVANCE THAT IS FORCING US TO TERMINATE THEM BECAUSE IT VIOLATES THE UNION AGREEMENT. WE ARE TRYING. WE HAVE A LOT OF BATTLES TO FIGHT. WE WOULD HAVE HAD MORE PEOPLE WORKING PART-TIME IF WE COULD HAVE HAD.

     NORMA DISHMAN TOLD ABOUT VOLUNTEERS WHO MOW THE GRASS AT A COUPLE OF HOUSES THAT IS EMPTY CLOSE TO HER HOME. SHE SAID THIS IS BEING DONE TO KEEP THINGS LOOKING NICE.

PRESIDENT YORK MOVED TO ADJOURN.

COUNCILMAN REID: SECOND